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Thread: The New Consider Phlebas thread (contains spoilers)

  1. #21
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    Oh know (err, no), Conscious Bob makes an appearance without actually appearing. Looking the "errors" over, I'm reminded once again what an incredible nitpicker CB was. The so called errors are mostly meh. 1) A timeline problem. Oh no, Iain made a slight timeline fuck up. I only hope I can live with it. 2) An inappropriate royal title. Maybe important to you that still have royals to debase, not so much to us that don't give a shit about appropriate royal titles. Though maybe it was appropriate on Sursamen, where royal titles may not follow strict British protocol. 3) A distance and speed problem. Only the geekiest math nerds would worry about this. Perhaps the Sleeper Service was going to take a slow, roundabout route, give it time to unwind and reflect, thus the journey would take a long time. 4) An alleged antigrav usage on an orbital. Ever consider that drones, ships, etc have propulsion systems, perhaps effector-based or whatever, that keep them in the air and moving on orbitals and ships and other places without mass-based or artificial gravity fields. It's Culture tech we're talking about here.

    Sorry I haven't starting posting any actual CP related stuff yet. I've been reading The Last Lion, Winston Spencer Churchill, Defender of the Realm, 1940–1965, which is some 1000 pages long (fascinating reading I may add, highly recommended) and it's taking me a bit longer than I expected. Expect to finish in the next day or so. Then on to CP and some relevant posts.

  2. #22
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    1000 pages eh? That's probably take me about 6 months.

    As for CP, I'm up The Eaters now
    "Just have fun"

  3. #23
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    I have finished the eaters on my morning ingress grin, going out in to the evil yellow light to deal with probably the damage game and horza escape from Vavatch.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by phazedout View Post
    This did make me curious, sure the Orbitals generate gravity through sin and AG works against mass, but there are reference to the "ultra dense" plate material logicaly, would it not make sense that the AG could push against that?, I suppose Iain was neer really in to the hard sci fi side of things, I am honestly not sure how much research he did and the spaceships were mostly, I think, backdrops for character exploration and fantastical iganings. Presumbly floater harnesses don't use AG then :P
    I actually read that whole discussion thread about drone propulsion (hey, I'm at work, I need something to do). They needn't have bothered, it's perfectly explained by Turminder Xuss in Matter:

    “How do things like you float in the air like that?”
    “Why, with ease.”

    I always assumed they moved through some variant of field technology. Is it possible that on an orbital, AG might well be able to push against against the gravitational field of the base material somewhat, but it's not sufficient to counteract the the centrifugal force (or centripedal? I can't remember) which is pressing you down instead of gravity.

    Anyway, who knows. I don't think it's an error, it's just not something that's explained.

  5. #25
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    Been out ingressing a lot which gives me the chance to listen to mu h more of the book, at this point the damage game is over, Horza has kiled kraklyn and who knows how many other people in the mad, burning escape from the Ends Of Invention and they are approaching Shar's world.

    I did like listening especially to the Pit of Self Doubt bit, it sounds rambling, confusing, bizare and incoherent, precisely what you imagine might go through somebody's mind if that happened, especially a changer.

    I am reelly starting to dislike horza, he seems thoroughly morally absent and cares little about whom he kills, his love even appears faked at some points and I would go as far to suggest he may have some tendancy towards sociopathic behaviour.

    He expresse no remorse about killing people and there seems to be nothing he won't do in order to fulfil his mission, deaths of others appear indifferent, collatoral damage.

    Thoughts, anyone else?

  6. #26
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    Here's an old thread about Horza:
    http://www.iainbanksforum.net/showth...ght=bora+horza
    "Just have fun"

  7. #27
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    Now that I've read the first few chapters of CP, it becomes apparent by the end of the 2nd chapter that the Idirans are theocratic fascists and the Culture, while perhaps interfering do-gooders, are the injured side, drawn into a war not of their making. It also becomes apparent that Horza's reasons for siding with the Idirans are illogical. After Balveda reminds him it's the Idirans who have destroyed species, civilizations, systems, and individuals in the name of their religion, something the Culture would never do. Horza replies bizarrely, "On a straight head count the Idirans no doubt do come out in front, Perosteck, and I've told them I never did care for some of their methods, or their zeal. I'm all for people being allowed to live their own lives. But now they're up against you lot, and that's what makes the difference to me. Because I'm against you, rather than for them, …." Shortly later he says, "I don't care how self-righteous the Culture feels or how many people the Idirans kill. They're on the side of life—boring old-fashioned biological life, …." Horza justifies the vast destruction the Idirans are causing (gigadeaths we learn), because they are "on the side of life". Sorry, spurious reasoning. That's the kind of duplicitous thinking all fascists (whether Nazis or today's Islamic jihadists) use to justify their ends versus means methods. We're justified in causing vast death and destruction, in utilizing terror to gain our ends, because our ideological dogma is the truth. Those who don't believe as we do are little more than vermin to dispose of. Think for a moment how utterly different your life would be if the Germans and Japanese had emerged victorious in WWII. We definitely wouldn't be discussing Banks right now.

    In a sense, Horza could be considered worse than the Idirans, because he could have sat out the war in a place of absolute safety with one he supposedly loves. Perhaps his only saving grace is that after 6 years he has grown tired of war and agrees to undertake the mission to Schar's World so he can return to his prewar idyllic life. Something that his Idiran masters don't actually commit to and which I doubt they would agree to even if the mission were to be completed successfully. They'll just continue to use Horza till he either dies or goes completely insane and justify it as their right and duty. I'd be willing to bet that Horza is well along the road to PTSD (posttraumatic stress disorder).

    Its intriguing that Banks decided to begin the Cultureverse (remember, he already had written versions of PoG and UoW at this time) with a novel in which the Culture is mostly peripheral to the story told, though perhaps that was just a publishers decision (let's go first with the action filled novel, rather than the character study or that weirdly sequenced one). We learn a great deal about the Culture and meet a few of its citizens, yet not a single Mind appears center stage.

  8. #28
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    hmm. I thought there was a mind centre stage. I recon Mr Adequate was meddling: all the biologicals received a deathwish and the AI's all got mysterious brainwipes. Very convenient.

  9. #29
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    OV, which Mind would that be? I don't recall one.

  10. #30
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    The only one mentioned so far is the one that escaped onto the Planet of the Dead.

    I like the Audio Book readers voices on the Eaters section
    "Just have fun"

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