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Thread: The Empire of Azad (SPOILERS).

  1. #11
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    The comparison with North Korea doesn't fit Azad. Azad is an expansive dynamic empire not a rogue state.
    Drink, but very carefully...

  2. #12
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    Most likely Azad is a thinly disguised caricature of the UK and our ruling class. 'The game' is just a metaphor for cultural capital and how outsiders are excluded from power and society.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conscious Bob View Post
    Azad is an expansive dynamic empire not a rogue state.
    Azad is vast and expansive from our perspective, but a big fish in a Small Magellanic Cloud, and less than a regionally powerful rogue state in the eyes of a Level 8 civ like the Culture.

    I'd say the Empire of Azad should not be modelled on any specific real empire or regime in particular, but like megafauna says I imagine it to be a overblown pastiche of the darker side of Great Britain, with strong overtones of Nazism, North Korean drabness and kitsch, with Imperial Japanese style fanaticism thrown in for good measure.
    'Poverty is not an injustice. There is no such thing as causes for poverty, only causes for wealth. Poverty is not a wrong, but taking money from those who have it to equalize incomes is basically theft, which is wrong.' - Typical Randroid

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Orange View Post
    Azad is vast and expansive from our perspective, but a big fish in a Small Magellanic Cloud, and less than a regionally powerful rogue state in the eyes of a Level 8 civ like the Culture.

    I'd say the Empire of Azad should not be modelled on any specific real empire or regime in particular, but like megafauna says I imagine it to be a overblown pastiche of the darker side of Great Britain, with strong overtones of Nazism, North Korean drabness and kitsch, with Imperial Japanese style fanaticism thrown in for good measure.
    Reading the book that's not the impression I got. The Mind's considered themselves fortunate that the Culture was ahead in development of Azad and Azad was nothing at all like a rogue state. It was something unique and very dangerous, a galactic empire.

    I think it's correct to view Azad society as a composite rather than based on one particular model.
    Drink, but very carefully...

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    Quote Originally Posted by charismatic megafauna View Post
    Whatever their motivations, they're hardly the first, and certainly not the last, to see themselves as cultural/genetic/moralistic paragons. They're not a group of happy campers. I imagine Lenin would be appalled to be associated with the loonies of a Communist monarchy.
    Now this REALLY makes no sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dunkoveru View Post
    Now this REALLY makes no sense.
    Explain why.
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  7. #17
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    What's with dunkoveru's irritating poo poo posting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conscious Bob View Post
    Reading the book that's not the impression I got. The Mind's considered themselves fortunate that the Culture was ahead in development of Azad and Azad was nothing at all like a rogue state. It was something unique and very dangerous, a galactic empire.
    It was not exactly very dangerous to the Culture and was essentially a local threat (as nasty as they were) confined within a dwarf galaxy, with the Nauptre Reliquaria coming across as a genuinely unique and very dangerous threat instead. The Culture's method of toppling the Azad regime was a more subtle Libyan style intervention (and they had other agents on the ground).
    Last edited by Big Orange; 20-06-2013 at 09:15 PM.
    'Poverty is not an injustice. There is no such thing as causes for poverty, only causes for wealth. Poverty is not a wrong, but taking money from those who have it to equalize incomes is basically theft, which is wrong.' - Typical Randroid

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    From reading the book, I don't get the impression the Culture was much worried about their ability to handle the Azadians one way or another, just a matter of how, subtle or hammer blow. The Azadians are likely level 6 at the most, even Gurgeh's module is much faster than their most advanced warships (and grouses about having to maintain such a slow pace when accompanying them). Whether they're a rogue state or not is really beside the point. I think Banks enjoyed devising authoritarian societies as sort of satirical intellectual exercises, reflections on various, insane/inane, but all too real, Earth societies. The Affront are probably his masterpiece.

  9. #19
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    Well since the Empire of Azad were likely a comparatively modest Level 5 or 6 civilisation, it was implied the Azad leaders were firmly given a offer they couldn't refuse from an encroaching Special Circumstances when they accepted Gurgeh into their politically/culturally vital Game and it partially explains the Emperor's extreme reaction in the face of defeat.
    Last edited by Big Orange; 21-06-2013 at 12:36 AM.
    'Poverty is not an injustice. There is no such thing as causes for poverty, only causes for wealth. Poverty is not a wrong, but taking money from those who have it to equalize incomes is basically theft, which is wrong.' - Typical Randroid

  10. #20
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    An offer they couldn't refuse. After all, how could anyone beat them at their own game?

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